Session 2 (Men)

For this particular session, the plan is for Pastor Charlie and I to to do this particular one in in tandem with each other, and so, and so what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about just some of the practical aspects of of some of the stuff that we just talked about, which, by the way, I fully recognize is a heavy load and might feel kind of corrective in nature. But it's also meant to like inspire us to to the more. Like none of us got married thinking, man, I hope this thing is less than what it's supposed to be. Like none of us went into marriage that way. No matter the circumstances of your marriage, none of us went into it like wanting less. We want the more, and so all of this stuff, though it be challenging, is about challenging us to step into the fullness of God's design for our marriages. Now, in order for us to do so, we have to think in terms of like how this is then lived out. So the first session was intended for us to to paint like broad strokes the picture of what it's meant for us to to be husband to our wives. Well, today we want to talk about maybe some of the the specifics on how it's lived out, and so there's two aspects that we're going to talk about, and and we're going to divide it between Pastor Charlie and I. Is is we're going to talk about the pitfalls to us stepping into into God's design for us as husbands, and then we're also going to talk about the ways that we build into it, the the way that we actually like invest and step fully into it. So I'm going to first start talking about the pitfalls, like what gets in the way of us being the husbands that we are meant to be for our wives. Well, on the surface, I'm sure that we can maybe think of a few ourselves, and and just just as a way of setting the tone, what are some of the ways that that you can think of off the top of your mind? And go ahead and just say it. What are some of the ways that you can think of that that that we can act or or maybe step into in a general sense. So it's not about like calling out your stuff. What are some of the things that we can do that act against us stepping into the role that God had? What are the pitfalls that we can set in place that keep us from being the men we're meant to be for our wives?

Lust.

Lust. Yeah, yeah. Beating him up with the word instead of washing him with the word. Yeah, for sure. What else? Selfishness, pride. Oh yeah, pride's a big one. So, so there's a handful, and we're already kind of aware of some of them. There's three specific that I want to talk about because I mean, like, if we're gonna give an exhaustive list of the things that can get in the way, we would be here all day, right? So I'm gonna just give like the three that I think really set the tone for the others, and so the first pitfall that I want to talk about is is in the way that we can substitute other things, or I should say, substitute our wives for other things, or or even potentially other people. So in Ephesians five, right, we we talked about it said in verse 31. For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So, in order for us to function as one to the fullest capacity, our wives have to have a unique place in our heart, and and and so with that, like let's let's talk about the ways that we can potentially replace our wife with something else. Family dynamics, family dynamics can be one of those things. Like, there's a reason why in the Bible it says a man is supposed to leave his father and mother because family dynamics can play a role in where we tend to prefer the family we grew up in, or the family that that we have attachments to, in a way that that that takes precedent over our wives, in a way that we can look at our wives and be like, "Uh, you had best just step into this because this was here before you. Except for that's not the way that God designed for this to be. You leave them for her. Now, what does that then mean? Like for for my family, my family is super tight. We've been through a whole lot of whole lot a lot together as a family, and so with that. There's a there's a tightness and a bond with the family that we have left, and and there's a way that I have to navigate that, and I have to decide like what's the right thing for us to do as a family because they don't get to dictate how I am with my wife, and and so I have to consider that also our friends, our friends can have a certain place that our wives just don't, and and and in a way that they can take precedent. Like I know that we were supposed to hang out, but I got invited to this thing. But then, if we're going to be honest, the biggest the biggest thing that we can struggle with is the way that we can lust for other women, and and and they, we substitute them, like our wife for them. And sometimes it's actual physical women, but sometimes it's just imaginary that we see on a screen, or we see at a distance, or whatever. Now now we grow up in a culture where where we're like it's just window shopping. As long as you look and you don't touch, so so I don't I don't need to get too much into the scriptures where Jesus said to lust out of after a woman in your heart is to commit adultery with her, but at the same time, like we don't need to necessarily talk about that as much as we need to talk about the place that it has in our life, right? Because we understand the concept, but but understanding the concept hasn't necessarily like stopped us as men, right? Not not the concept in general. And I heard this story. I thought was really interesting. John MacArthur, who is this pastor that's been a pastor for a long time until he recently passed away, he was saying that he was with a man who was on his deathbed in his 90s, and he said that this man on his deathbed said that his one regret in life is that he never really got free from the lust in his heart.

Like I think sometimes we think, well, lust is just like a young man's game, but there's potential for it to be with us and carry it as a present thing throughout our adult lives, if we're not careful, and what that is is it's not just like the act of like adultery. What it does is it it makes your wife less to you than what she's meant to be. Like it's interesting that Proverbs chapter five puts it this way in Proverbs chapter five verse 18. It says, "Let your fountain be blessed and rejoice with your wife of your youth, as a loving deer and a graceful doe. Let her breasts satisfy you at all times and always be enraptured with her love. And the brother said, "Amen. Right, but Listen, like Solomon adds to all of that. He says, "For why should you, my son, be enraptured by an immoral woman and be embraced in the arms of a seductress? For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and He ponders all His paths. Like God knows, our wives might not know, but God knows the place or the lack thereof in our life that she has because we've embraced even on a video screen the the the the lust for a woman. Yeah, for sure. Right, and and and the whole point in that is like she is doing it for the whole purpose of immoral reasons, and and and then we're not only joining ourselves to that, we're feeding off of that, Right, so the second thing is is the way that we can offer the second pitfall is in the way that we can offer our wives non present presence. So here's what I mean by that. So in my family growing up, it was mostly my my mom, my sister, and I. Like my mom, my sister, and I could be in a single room with the TV on, and then doing three different things, and my mom and my sister would consider that us spending time together. We're doing three different things in the same room, and they would say that we're spending time together. So I brought some of that into my marriage, and my wife felt like I was never with her because we'd be watching TV, and I'd be like on my phone, or I'd be reading something, or whatever. And she felt like unless we were doing the same activity at the same time, then we were separate from each other. That's the way that she valued it. And so there's a need for me to recognize as the husband is that it's not just about her coming to terms with how I think of it; it's about me coming to terms with how she thinks about it, so that she can get from me the presence that she needs. Like fellas, we can be home but fully checked out. We could be at home and and have no engagement with her, with the kids. We're just doing our thing. We're like in our man cave or in the other room or whatever. In in a way that we might be home, but we're more like a ghost to her, and and and our lack of presence kind of haunts the fact that that she doesn't have us. Like she's meant to have us, and and so now she feels like we are totally isolated from her, and now she's alone. We're in the house, and she's feeling all alone. There's a way that that yes, we're allowed to have maybe some time to ourselves and all that other kind of stuff, and we need to be able to work those things out with our wife. But if if that's more of the rule than the exception, then then what we give our wife is non-present presence. We're there, but not really. And so then, what's the difference between that and separation? Right. So, the the third thing that I want to bring up is is a lack of intentional leadership. So that can be a major pitfall for us, because like, so men as men we compartmentalize and we compartmentalize our life. Well, we have work life, we have home life, we have church life, we have friend life, we have all these lives. They they they're all separated. That's kind of how we think.

And when we think about our home. Don't raise your hand because I'm not trying to like call out your families. But but how many of us think of like our home as like our wife's territory? Like she does the cooking, she does the cleaning, she does the child rearing, she does all the things that happen there. Now now you take care of the bills, you take care of the roof, you take care of like the work and and and putting food on the table and all that stuff, but but the home is like her domain, and so what we do in that moment is we punt. Using man terms, I was.

It's not manly to punt, bro. That's weak.

That's true.

but but we could we can we can punt our responsibility in a way that we're like well leadership in the home is her thing like she calendars everything she plans everything she does all these things like I'm just there, and and and if you've ever felt like you don't really count in your home, could it be that there's just a lack of ownership in terms of leadership? Like maybe the reason why you feel like you're just there is because you've been punting leadership for so long that your family doesn't even know, your wife doesn't even know what it's like to have you lead anything anymore, and maybe you're the type where you're like, I'm just a free flowing kind of guy. I just my wife tells me where, and I show up. That's fine, except for when when there's no sense of of investment and direction from you. Like, where's your finances going? What is what is like spiritual life look like in your home, like we can get so caught up in the mundane and the everyday aspects of life that that that there's no real intentional leadership. So how can we then be for our spouse, our wife, the thing that we're meant to do when when when she doesn't have the place in our heart, when when we're not present in our presence, and when we punt all the leadership, these are pitfalls that we create that keep us from being the men we're meant to be in our homes, and these are dynamics that are meant to exist not not only like when you first get married in the honeymoon phase, and and not only when your kids are growing up, but when your kids are out of the house, and when it's all when all you have are each other, still leadership has to be present. Presence has to be present, and and and a whole life given to your spouse, to your wife, where she has her own unique place. Like that has to be there, in order for us to be the men and the husbands that God has called us to be.

Can I can I just add a couple thoughts, please, to to all three of them? Yes. So when we're talking about like lust, I have I have this friend who puts it this way: is that like we're seeking out hamburger, and we got steak at home. And it's like for me, that sticks in my head all the time. Like when I'm tempted, or when I see a beautiful woman, or I'm tempted to open my phone and do something, or go to a site that like, whatever. That quote like pops into my head all the time, you know, and I think the what have you found anything like that you feel like is a good helpful tool to protect yourself there?

So there's a few things in particular that that I find super helpful. So for one, I have internet. Realtors on my stuff. Part of that exists for me. Part of that exists for my wife because I know that if she knows that those things are there, it brings her a sense of peace. Also, having accountability. Like there's a reason why, and we just talked about it in James. That James says, like if you're caught up in sin, have an accountability partner, and and go through that stuff together. Like pray and seek the face of God together. It's helpful because when we're left to do these things on our own, if we're going to be honest, we'll find a way, right? Like those those things always have a habit of finding a way, if not overtly, then subvertly, and and so so it's about the way that we establish like guardrails that are helpful to us

So one one thing that, and we're going to talk about this in the intimacy workshop, but one thing that I feel like has been really helpful with that is praying for my wife to be my object of affection. Praying for God to make my wife the one that I find attractive. That is like a super helpful prayer, also just like for for all of us, because as we get older, as she gets older, I mean that listen. There's like, you look when guys have like midlife crises, 60 year olds aren't going and getting 70 year old girlfriends; they're getting 20 year old girlfriends, and it's because our eyes have not been continually transformed by the Holy Spirit, and that's something that we need to be laying at the feet of Jesus as well. So, this is just a presence thought, like on the presence one, is like this thing right here is the biggest problem we have. Like I think this is probably the biggest problem we have in all of these, it's probably the biggest problem, the easiest doorway to lust. Now, it's easy to like, I'm here, but I'm not here. Like, I'm here, but I'm on my phone, and somebody and I watch this in my kids. So my kids are all teenagers now, and my older two have phones. The amount of times now that I'm having to say things two or three times that I didn't have to a year ago before they had phones, and like I can't even be mad at them because I do the same thing, and so it's like creating a time where this is not even available is something. And then I'm interested in like the lack of like intentional leadership. We, so like as guys, I think we dump, and this is like hardwired in us because it's how the Lord made us. If you just look in Genesis one, like our job to like tend and keep and grow, and I think like we give everything to work, and it's important when we get home that we still give everything there too, so that we go to bed exhausted, in a good way. But I think it's a it's like we you have to create that. We have to create that. I went home one time 10 years ago, probably. I came home. This is Bridget wasn't working at the time. I came home and the house was destroyed like a mess. She'd been home all day. I was, I was like super stressed, and I came in and I'm like, "You've got to be kidding me! Like you've been here all day with these three kids, and you couldn't clean up nothing. And I remember, so we had this like cabinet. It was like a hanging cabinet. You know what I mean? In the kitchen, like they used to do that. Maybe they still do. I don't know. But it was like a hanging cabinet. I put my head on it, and I just go, and she's in the kitchen. She's like, "What? And I go, "Our home is not a restful place for me. And she goes, "I mean, she goes, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that this was supposed to be a restful place for you. While I, do you think it's been restful for me here all day, and I was like, "Oh, immediately I'm like,

it's like that Homer Simpson thing backing him. Stepped on that landline, but I was like so stressed. I said it, and I think like when I look at it, I just look at my like lack of like how that's my responsibility. I'm supposed to be a manager of my Household, and and loving her and giving her all the tools and whatever I need to give her so she can do her job best. I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on like how to empower her so that she can lead while you're not there?

Yeah, I think I think there's. I think a lot of ways that we can establish purpose in the home, both for yourself and for your wife. So I was talking to Paul earlier on, and he was talking about retirement, and we're talking about how men have a tendency to die early after retirement for a lot of men, right, because they lose that sense of purpose. I think there's something to be said about understanding that there's purpose in your home and that you have a specific purpose there, but then also empowering your wife to step into those things too. So, like when it comes to my kids, I will not let my kids disrespect my wife on any level whatsoever. That is a no-fly zone, does not exist. When my wife tells them something, then then that's the way it is. Even if I if I don't agree with it, her and I will have a conversation on the side, never in front of our kids. I will not let my wife be disrespected in the home. At the same time, we'll be in conversation about stuff, what we're having for dinner, all that. Those like, I don't care what we have for dinner that night. She does in in a way that like she wants me to be a part of the process, so I'll be in the process with her, and so I'll manage the home in the way that like she has the stuff that she does, but I'm still a part of it, and I have the stuff that I do, and she's still a part of that. We're in it really together, but under the direction that I feel like God has given us. Does that does that make sense? So so I understand that I have purpose there. My purpose doesn't end when I walk through the door. Like there's a greater sense of purpose when I do. Well, with that, why don't Pastor Charlie like share with us like his portion, and then we'll open up like a Q and A after.

So I want to talk about we're talking about like building like foundations. So that's one of the things that when we're discussing doing this kind of like team teaching, he Pastor Brandon wanted to talk about pitfalls, and I was going to talk about foundations and like building. And when I hear that, I immediately think of Matthew seven, where Jesus says in verse 24 through 27, he says, "Therefore, whoever hears these sayings of mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. But who? But everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall. So, like, I understand he's talking about faith, obviously, but when you think of it in terms of marriage, it actually makes a lot of sense too. And so, I want to talk about like, what does it mean building a firm foundation and discussing three ways that this concept of building on the on the rock, building on a firm foundation, can like overlay to create a beautiful, thriving marriage. First off, I would just say it's not one and done. So, like my house was built. I think my house was built in 1946, but if it was built in 1946 and then never touched again, it would be in complete shambles right now. It would be in shambles. Now, again, Jesus is talking about faith, but if you if you apply that towards marriage, it tracks. Like you have to invest and maintain to allow this thing to continue to thrive. So how do we do that? Number one, you're always building. You're always building, and you're always building and investing in your relationship with both Jesus and your wife, always, and with your wife, a lot of that is investing in friendship. In in Deuteronomy six, when in the Shema, he says to love your Lord, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. The word is ahava. Ahava. It's not this warm, fuzzy, emotional energy like when you like someone or when you have a crush. It is. It's biblical love in action. So, like you ahava someone when you act in this loyalty and this faithfulness, and this is the same way. So this is how we treat God, but it's the same way we should be treating our wife. So it's not like we were friends. We get engaged and get married, and then we stop becoming friends, and we're all. Always, always, always building that that piece is super important to create even just like an intimacy that feels safe, which we'll get to in a second. But continuing to invest into your actual relationship and just having fun with each other, like I was. Bridget and I were talking. Sorry, whenever Pastor Brandon, we were still we were like tightening up some things on our session a little bit, and I asked her something. She started laughing, and we're back there like laughing during Pastor Brandon's thing, which I realize is not a good look. But I was doing it, and I was like, "Oh, we got to be quiet. But I was like, "But this is kind of fun, and this is kind of like we're here for this. Another way of building is like date night. When I do premarital, I tell them like you set a date night and you protect it with all of your life. Now, here's the thing: I understand that most guys are not the planners in their relationship. Like I've been around enough couples to know, like most ladies do the planning. Most guys are like, okay, I'll do. Let me check with the boss. Like we say that all the time. You don't have to be the planner, but you got to understand this is the most important relationship that you'll ever have. So it's fine that she plans it, that she's the one that plans it. But are you protecting it and making it a priority?

Because that's how you're going to continue to invest all the way to death. Like we have to be the one that fights for that. And then another way of continuing to build is this just spiritually checking in? We are in a season right now that just quite. It's probably the busiest season we've ever had in our entire life, both with work and I have three teenagers. It is, it's insane right now, but spiritually checking in versus letting conversation center around kids and work and bills. Like my job is checking on her heart and making sure that she feels cared for in that way, and I'm going to tell you right now. Like when when I when I shape the conversation that way, everything is better. Everything's better. Like our intimacy is better. The way we treat each other is better. The way I think about her, the way she thinks about me is better. Finding out how I can pray for her in doing so. So, first foundational piece is you're always building. The second is providing stability. I don't necessarily mean financially, although that's part of it. I'm what I'm mainly talking about is being consistent. Like your kids and wife should never wonder which dad and husband is coming home. Being consistent, they should never wonder if it's drunk dad coming home, if it's dad that is mad at work coming home, if it's dad that's stressed about traffic, if it's happy, Dad. If it's Dad who wants to take everybody, they should never have to wonder that. Like we should be able to be consistent for them. We're called to love our wives as Jesus loved the church. Like He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. And so, if we're using that as our backdrop, we should do everything within our power to be the same. This means that the reality is you have to put some sort of systems in your life to make sure that you're okay when you walk in that door. Take a minute when you get home from work, calm down, pray, and ask God to give you eyes to see your family the way that he sees them. The second piece in that is taking care of yourself, right? Like we we all have heard this. Like you got to put the oxygen mask on yourself before you can start putting it on anybody else around you on a plane. Like keeping our own daily rhythms of faith, investing in your overall health so that you have something to give. We have a lot, right? Like I'm not saying this isn't saying like I'm not saying like bootstrap this thing and thug it out. Like just work harder, you can do it. You got to do this. No, you're relying on Jesus, and the things that you're doing are relying on Jesus, being a good husband, being a good dad is hard. Like it's incredibly hard. It's literally the most difficult thing that we'll ever have to do in this life. We just talked about in the last session. It we are supposed to die to that. We're. Supposed to give ourselves up for our wife, but it's also the most rewarding and worthwhile task that we ever get to participate in, and so it's it's much. Here's the reality: it's much easier to fail in this than it is to succeed. So we have to be up for that fight. During COVID, it was crazy, right? Like it was the craziest season, and and I want to encourage us. The third part is to lead the charge in difficulty. When difficulty comes up, lead it. I remember when it first started COVID. When COVID first started, all the all the stuff in the grocery stores was getting like pulled off the shelves. Remember, and it was like just like a weird. The first couple weeks were just wild, and I remember Bridget wanted to go to the store, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'll go to the store. I got it, and she's like, no, it's fine. I just need to go get these things. I'm like, nope, and I'm like, it's not. I could. Okay, I'm gonna be careful here. It's not about COVID. I'm not worried about you getting sick. I don't trust people. Like I don't know.

What if you have something that they want, and this is a chaos time? I'm going. Like, do you think? Do you guys think I like? I hate going to the store. I, I hate it. But I'm gonna go because I. It's a weird thing. So, like, do you have trouble with your finances? Is there trouble with work? Did something bad happen? Like, part of our job is wearing it. Part of our job is just simply wearing it, leading through it. You don't know what you're doing. Okay, pray for wisdom. We just got done with the book of James. Like, pray for wisdom, keeping our mind right to make the best decision possible. Allow you to lead in difficult times. We can't make our wife do the hard stuff. And then the last thing I'll say in that one is outlive her. A lot of us are like, I hope I die first because I'm screwed if she if I if she goes first, let me ask you this: You made a vow to take care of your wife. What an honor! What an honor! If she goes first and you're able to take care of her all the way into glory, like some my friend Fred told said this to me, and it like shook me. He's like, I I hope my wife dies before me, and I was like, what? And what he said was, my job is to take care of her, like I, and it changed everything about the way that I think about that, because so then even just like the way I I treat myself provides stability in that. The last one, and this is gonna gonna hit on what you were talking about, Jose, is like creating safety. We just talked about submission in that other room right now. That's the main thing they're talking about: is how to submit in a healthy way, right? I'm here to tell you that it's your job, it's our job to create the kind of environment that would allow them to want to submit. Like God created them to your wife to folly for them to do that. The reality is, like we can't lead if she won't follow. So trying to hold submission over her head is like a ridiculous concept if we're not creating the environment for it, and it's actually like allowing her to thrive in her role. It's this beautiful thing that we get to help provide there, And so, within that, does she trust you to lead her? Are you a man of integrity? She knows you better than anybody, right? She knows you better than anybody else. And if you're a man of integrity, that doesn't mean that you're always going to do what she wants. Just to be clear, but that she'll trust you when there's something that has to be done or a decision that has to be made. She'll trust that you're seeking wisdom from the Holy Spirit, and that it's not just you acting in your flesh, and that creates this environment. It creates a safe environment, and then this specifically, Jose, was what you were talking about. Like we have a job to empower our wife in her gifting. So if she's better at the bills, at planning a budget, at planning vacations, or planning retirement, or she's better at things that that yes, it it can still be on your watch, and it is. But same Holy Spirit or different Holy Spirit living in our wife as in us, same. Gifted, gifted, God gives all of us gifts, all of us strengths. This is why we complement one another. Going to the helpmate thing. This is why we compliment one another, and so the reality is she's better at you than a lot of she's better than you at a lot of things, and that's beautiful. Now we then empower her to thrive and be great at what God's already given her to be great at, and lead that, and check in, and make sure that we're not punting on that too. Just because she's better, that means that as a leader, like we encourage her, we fan that into flame, empower her. It's not. That's actual leadership.

Is saying like it's not saying I got to do everything. It's saying, hey, I recognize like you're actually better. You're really good at this. You're gonna do that. I'm gonna do this. We're gonna talk about it. Make sure we're both on the same page, and yeah. So that's how I would say creating a safe environment. So yeah, creating safe environment, continually building and providing stability are what I would say is like foundational pieces.