Session Breakout (Talk about Sex)

All right. Well, my name is Charlie, and this is Bridget. If you don't know us, when when they told us we have to do this twice in one day, we said we've been married 22 years. We haven't done this twice in one day in like a long time. So you got to be favored with us. Thank you for getting the joke. I just want to like break the ice a little bit because I wasn't open for this one because the second one. first opener was was different, but to be honest, like we just we we appreciate you being here. I want to give a couple caveats like about this particular topic in this session, and one is like similar to the way that I, when I'm doing announcements and I'm talking about money, I don't care at all. A lot of churches and pastors get like weird asking. I just don't care. It's something God's given us to steward. It's it's just a thing that He wants to use to advance the kingdom and to show our worship for Him. And so like, let's talk about it. Not to mention the Bible talks about it all the time. I think the same way about sexual intimacy. I truly think the same. So I hope this doesn't feel awkward for you, and because it doesn't for us. Well, it doesn't for me. I don't think it does for you either.

And the Bible talks about it a lot.

The Bible talks about a lot. We we also all come in having had different teaching, even in the church about sex. Unfortunately, church in general will like kind of shies away from it because it's uncomfortable, and so most of the narrative we hear is that it's bad. Don't do it. It's dirty. We bring in like all all of that, which of course there is that, but what we then bring into marriage is a narrative that we're going to talk about in a second that is not holistic of how God designed sex to operate. We come in with past. We come in with these deep beliefs that we don't even know because it's like buried into our subconscious from family, from friends, from church, trauma, and so we each come in with something different, and so I also just we have 45 minutes to do this. There is we already saw in the first session that's not even close to enough time, but if we like scratch an old scar on accident or rip off a scab, just know, like while we are not necessarily experts, there are resources, and we would love to point you towards those. Pray with you in in whatever, and do as much as we can, like as people in your church, to lead and love in that way. And so, our goal is really to point at what God designed for sexual intimacy within marriage. So we're we're kind of starting from that point that this is designed to be within marriage. Okay, I think we've probably all heard that. We've if you've been to church, you've heard that. So I'm not going to like sit here and talk about that part necessarily. What I want to talk about and start with is like the doctrine and theology of sex within marriage, and that it's actually meant to be this beautiful, beautiful, incredible gift that God gives. Genesis two, we read this earlier, verse 20 through 22 through 25 says this. Then the rib which the Lord had taken, or Lord God had taken from man, he made into a woman, and he brought her to the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man, therefore man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. When you're reading that, if you're reading in your Bible, like I see it right here, right there, That this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This is a song of worship. Like notice in your in your Bible, it's it it's it is a poem. This is a song. Adam is worshiping God. Why? Because he's looking at this gift God's just given him and going, like she's beautiful. Like oh my gosh, that's what I've been missing. Like, and so there is more to even just for our eyes. God knows we're visual people. Even just more, even more than than our souls and sex being used for procreating. There is a desire. That he places within us, that is healthy and good, and so just want to set that stage first. Then, in Song of Solomon, we see this continued that that sex is a gift, and pleasure is actually one of the goals of it, like it feels good, because God designed it to feel good. There is, there is, yes, there's this command: fill the earth and subdue it. But He's like, and enjoy one another. Parts of our body literally serve no purpose except to feel good. Song of Solomon, chapter four, verse one through five. This is the wedding day. Okay, this is a wedding day. How he describes his his wife. Now I gotta warn you, fellas.

This is not how you're gonna spit game to the girls because it's not going to translate very well what he says, but what he's saying is like, baby, I love you. Look how hot you are. Okay, here we go. He says, "Behold, you are fair, my love. Behold, you are fair. You have a dove's eyes behind your veil. That's okay. But then he says, "Your hair is like a flock of goats going down from Mount Gilead, your teeth are like a flock of shorn sheep, which have come up from the washing. Nothing better than clean sheets.

Every one of every one of which bears twins, and none is barren among them. Your lips are like a strand of scarlet. Your mouth is lovely. Your temples behind your veil are like a piece of pomegranate. Your neck is like the tower of David built for an armory. Girls got a built neck, on which hang 1000 bucklers, all shields of mighty men. Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle, which feed among the lilies, and then her response to him,

yes, is Song of Solomon 5:10, through 16. She says, "My beloved is white and ruddy, chief among 10,000. His head is like the finest gold. His locks are wavy and black as a raven. His eyes are like doves by the river rivers of waters, washed with milk, and fitly set. His cheeks are like a bed of spices, banks of scented herbs. His lips are lilies, dripping liquid myrrh. His hands are rods of gold set with beryl. His body is carved ivory inlaid with sapphires. His legs are pillars of marble, set on bases of fine gold. His countenance is like Lebanon, excellent as the cedars, his mouth is most sweet. Yes, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend. O daughters of Jerusalem,

this does not sound like God's like. All right, guys, you're married. Go have a baby. He's saying, "This is this is this this enjoyment, this attraction that he gives for one another. And so, I we just kind of want to set the stage first that there is a deep desire and attraction is good. Now, this is their wedding night, right? And so, there it obviously exists in the complaints of marriage. That said, something I notice is the very last thing she says: "This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem. We'll get to that in a second. But while the that is true, sex is more than just bodies. It's more than just my body and her body. It is actually like engaging a full identity, a fullness of who I am-heart, soul, mind, and strength. They're all. all inextricably tied together. We see this even even scientifically, like when there's been trauma and like like sexual trauma, and people disassociate from what's happening to their body. Right? It's obviously very unhealthy to have to do that, but their mind literally shuts that down because it's so painful. Why is it so painful? Because there's been damage to the soul via the body. It's all wrapped into one, and so there is this sexuality with. In marriage, there's this mingling of souls that goes beyond body. It goes all the way into our soul and our heart, our mind. It's a whole. It's a whole thing. Genesis four one says, "Now Adam knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the Lord. This word to know, know, we just read it and we'll zip by it. But there's not an actual English word for the the Hebrew word here, which is yada. To know, to yada, his wife, means that there's this. It literally means a vulnerable connection spanning physical, emotional, and relational dimensions, rather than just this mechanical act. The reason we talk about that is because sex is this mingling of all that I am, and I can't. My body is not separate from my soul. It's not separate from my heart. It's not separate from my mind. All of that makes up who I am. Same with her. And so, when you have sex, it is a mingling of everything-a mingling of your soul, not just your body. So, in the Hebrew, like mindset, to have sex with your spouse. There is this-it's dropping all shame, dropping all emotional, physical, spiritual defenses, and being completely naked and unashamed. Now, that's really tough. I said this last time, and I say it again. Like being naked and unashamed, not easy. Like we've been married 22 years, and if we're just both standing there naked, I'm like, man, this is awkward. Like I'm gonna put on a shirt. I'm gonna put on some pants. Like it just there's something like broken in us, like we're not in Eden, and so that maybe our desire, maybe the desire, but there's something like broken within us. In First Corinthians 615 through 20, that's where it talks about like our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, and that is usually talked about in regards to like taking care of it, which is what it actually is saying, and not dishonoring the body. But there's also this piece: if our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, then when you're engaging in like sex as a married couple, this is actually an act of worship because it's something that God set aside for married couples to do, and this it becomes an act of worship. Her body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. We're naked and unashamed. There's yada, and and even and in that, like the Holy Spirit is part of this. It's why it's this mingling of souls beyond just an act of pleasure, while it is an act of pleasure because God's good and He loves us and wants us to enjoy things. Yeah,

yeah,

you're up.

Okay, so all of that is the biblical kind of like standard, the hope, the desire of sex within marriage. Right there's this element of being able to you know be naked and unashamed to have yadah connection with your spouse and have it be this mingling of souls that ultimately brings you closer and honors God. In reality, we are all broken and sinful people who come into marriage with our own, I'm going to call it for the purpose of this a sexual narrative, right? A belief or an experience with or about sex that we are carrying in to our marriage. So, for instance, if you're growing up in the church, and it's always something that you're told to avoid that it's bad, that you know you need to you need to wait, that you don't want to act on your desires, right? That it's lustful or these types of things, even though you have probably been told your whole life that this is supposed to wait until marriage. Wait until marriage, which ultimately means that once you get married, it's no longer those things. But we don't know how to just stop. Like, and yesterday I wasn't supposed to be doing this, and if I was, it was bad. Today, I don't feel that way anymore.

The reality is, you keep that with you a lot of times, and so perhaps you enter into this relationship and you want you've been wanting to do this, but then when it happens, you're like embarrassed or ashamed, or you feel guilty, or you feel like it's gross, or you're embarrassed to talk about it because we don't talk about it, right? No, we don't because that's embarrassing. So then, what if your spouse wants to talk to you about it? You're like, no, like awkward, right? Like, no, we don't talk about that. And so there's this wall. On the other side of it, I would say, especially for men, but it exists across culture that there is there. We've our our minds have been hijacked by pornography, by the sex industry, by images that we can't escape that you've seen or experienced, or you have your own personal past of sexual sin that you're bringing in, and ultimately, that's what you're coming into your marriage with...

Or sexual sin that was done to you.

Yes, which

I know we're doing too.

Yes, and so you come into your marriage with all of that, and then you're trying to mix them together, and somehow find yadah, And unfortunately, it doesn't always work like that. And maybe you arrive there sometimes, or you know, for a little bit in the beginning, and then you start to have your own sexual narrative within your marriage. So now you brought in yours. They brought in theirs. You mix them together, and now you have a new set of junk that you get to work through. And so we even see this on the wedding night in Song of Solomon. In Song of Solomon one six, she says, "Do not look upon me, because I am dark, because the sun has tanned me. My mother's sons were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards, but my own vineyard I have not kept. So, she's supposed to be naked and ashamed, but instead, what unashamed? Yes, but instead she's ashamed. Don't look at I'm not beautiful, right? I have been working in the field. It was not beautiful in their culture to be tanned. It was like you were a worker, right? And on top of that, she says her mother's sons, her brothers, were angry with her. It doesn't specify what that meant, but it clearly seems that she has damage personally from her family that she's carrying into this, and she is not feeling like he is going to want to see her. And his kind of response is like no, you know, your eyes are like dubs. But ultimately, we have this right. Oh, we we enter into our marriage with these things, and some people unfortunately come into marriage with even more than just a narrative. They come into marriage with real trauma and damage. One in six adults was molested as a child. That's ultimately the the current statistics, which is a lot of people that unfortunately have this experience. And so, on top of just our own personal feelings, and living in a sinful world and not feeling perfect about ourselves, you have a lot of marriages that have people who are just trying to not have an intimate relationship with their spouse bring up past trauma, and I think ultimately that's where we're saying we're not experts, we're not therapists. Like there are some things within a marriage where you really need to seek, you know, professional help to be able to get past these things. But also, God is is big, and He can heal any wound to be able to get you closer to receiving this biblical gift of intimacy in marriage. Sexual narratives after marriage can start to look like now what you. Believe your spice, your spouse thinks about you. If you start feeling like they don't initiate, then it's that you're unwanted. If they initiate often, and then you feel like this is all they want from you, if it's you know that it was you know there's not conversation you know before like all of these different things that you can bring into this, and it can be your own narrative that you have to work through. But at the same time, you start to, if you lean into each other and if you choose each other and intention, you can start to develop a more positive narrative around this in your relationship, and start working towards this yada interaction. And so, if you you can see there's verses about accepting each other's bodies. Right over time, our bodies do not look the same, and we don't feel the same about our bodies as we did when we were, you know, 20, 23, 25, whatever it was. When most people, you know, are starting relationships, even 30. I'd love to go back to 30, but so

pre-three kids,

pre yes, pre children, yes. That in First Thessalonians four four it says that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. So like this, that you are something that can be seen as honorable to your spouse, and if you're being, if you're giving each other, like, the benefit of the doubt. If you're working to serve each other, then it can take off the pressure of feeling like you need to be perfect sexually for your spouse. There can go ahead.

I was going to say this was something that we we've talked about this before, like it was like 10 years ago. We were doing one of these talks in our church, and we were talking about like this mutual submission, like to one another, that it talks about in Romans 12 and First Corinthians seven. It says, "Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love and honor, giving preference to one another, and then let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. And that's this concept of like, it gets into like basically don't hold out as an act of aggression, women tend to do this more than men. Just to be fair, for men it's like, what you want? Okay, I'll do it. Like we're we're a little bit more like let's go.

We have a lot of headaches. Okay. We,

yeah, women tend to have a lot of headaches. But the idea of like, like I am here to help you become more like Christ and not sin. She is the same to me, and so like our body, soul, mind, and heart are all tied together. So like how we interact sexually and and physically is part of that. Now I will say that for guys, I said this on the other like our job is to create a safe environment and a safe place where that can exist without our wife being like feeling it like an object, or taken advantage of. I was talking about that in a different way, but it's the same concept. Like we're here to create a safe environment, so that it makes it easy for her to be like, I would love to do that, even if you have a headache.

Yes. Yes. Even if you have a headache. So...

You were, last time you said you had get mentioned like you had to get to that place. Like I don't know if that's something you want to talk about.

Did I have to get to that place?

Of being like, I'm just gonna say yes.

Oh yeah. I know we're going in a different order than the last time, and I get confused because I'm not a professional public speaker like somebody else up here. So yes, so there is this aspect of marriage where the Bible talks about being helpful to your spouse so that you don't draw them into sin, right? So that you can keep them from sinning, and ultimately, a lot of times this is used because they would say that it's mostly for men, which I think that it can be for both sides, but that you're trying to essentially keep you know your husband wanting to stay at. Right, rather than going outside of the home and needing to fulfill his desires that way, and I think that there's this element of your marriage relationship that You want your spouse to be happy, and sometimes we take other parts of our marriage and we bring them into this part of our marriage, which is natural, right? And so maybe you're like, I'm frustrated about other things, so it's going to be like I'm gonna be cold and distant if you're trying to engage in intimacy, right? Because you don't feel like I don't feel like I want that right now, right? But at the end of the day, your husband or your wife is coming to you instead of someone or something else, and it is the best choice to receive them. If you do that perfectly or not, you know there's always forgiveness. But I had to come to a place in our marriage where I would say, where I was willing to say, I'm not gonna say no, like because really, unless there's something very pressing, like why why do I actually need to say no? And at the end, this is like a different group, so it feels a little bit like more odd. But um, you're you never I have never ever said yes, and then at the end been like, I really wish I had said no. It just has never happened. Whereas I have said no and regretted it the next day, right? But sometimes you're into winter and you're like, I am tired. Maybe I really do have a headache. Maybe I'm just annoyed at you. You know, like maybe I'm just not feeling myself. Like whatever it is, women are a lot more temperamental. But ultimately, your spouse is coming to you, and that's a vulnerable thing to do, right? To ask for this need, to show that you have an affection for someone, and you would like it to be reciprocated, and when it's denied, it can start to create very large barriers in your marriage, and so when this happens a lot over time, it can be a really big wall, and so

it doesn't take long. No, I mean you get denied. I'm just being honest. Like, I get denied once or twice. I'm like, it changes everything about how my confidence level and even even feeling like I can't I I can't initiate that now because it's like crushed my confidence, which is very you know weird to have to admit that, but it's true. I wanted to talk about really quick Song of Solomon five two. Like this is how how some of this can play out in real life. The importance of continuing your relationship. We talked about this in the guys' thing. Is like this is your best friend. This is meant to be the closest relationship, the most important relationship you have this side of eternity, and like continuing to cultivate and foster that creates an environment to where the desire to say yes comes from a place not maybe you say yes, but like not begrudgingly, but like you know I love you, and you know that you know I'm invested in this. And so in Song of Solomon five two, she says, "I sleep, but my heart is awake. It is the voice of my beloved. He knocks, saying, 'Open for me, my sister, my love, not his actual sister. Okay, my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one. For my head is covered with dew, my locks with the drops of the night. He says, my love. When he says my love, that word is raya. Okay, this is friendship, deep friendship, best friend. You're my person. Like it's an intellectual, emotional, everyday companion. Like I'm investing into that. This is my best friend. I get to have this life, this marriage, this sexual intimacy with my best friend. And so for guys, like when you're investing there, it makes the whole sexual intimacy piece like so much better, even for us, right? But it makes it, I would say, easier for you guys.

Yeah. So, women typically, I don't like to make false. Stereotypes because there are some relationships where things are you know more flipped, but generally women are more strongly relational, right, and less physical or like have less of a physical orientation, and so I think he probably made this joke in like the men's session, but you know there's a a lot of women who are like, you know, if you do the dishes, like, then then you know later on you'll have a good night. Basically, like right? It's like, do you do are you are you serving me? Are you seeing me? Are you willing? Like, what are you like gonna? How are we gonna meet in the middle here, right? Like, I feel loved when these things happen, and perhaps you feel like loved when we are sexually intimate. And it's not that women don't feel loved through that, but if that is the only way that you feel like you're showing your spouse your love. They are wanting more. I can assure you of that. And so, it's it's definitely something where, if I feel like we're going on, we have date nights. If you're checking in, if we are feeling connected. If I feel comfortable to talk to you about like what's going on in life, right? Ultimately, this is an this is a place of vulnerability, right? The bedroom is like you are quite literally taking all of your clothes off, right? It's like you are exposed, and so if we're going to get to that place, there has to be this feeling of safety underneath it for it to be the word yadah, right? Earlier that he's talking about that the Bible says when Adam knew Eve that it's this vulnerable connection, physical, spiritual, right? That's what we all want. Is this mingling of souls?

I would, and I would just add, I didn't say this in the first one that there will come a day when that physical part can't happen anymore. Like you're old, right? The physical goes away, but guess what? You've done is built this like this friendship, this relationship that's still intimate, even when like the sexual aspect can no longer happen because you're old, whatever. But like, that's just part of it. And I was just thinking about that right now. Sorry, you mean to do right now? Oh

yeah. And and also with the desire that we all have for to be truly known, right? In this way, like within physical intimacy, we all ultimately want it to look like this perfect biblical picture of like a full mingling of souls, right? But oftentimes we have the the narratives that are blocking us. We have the past experiences. We have the mental pictures because of what you've seen or been exposed to or had done to you that you have them running through your mind, right? Maybe men have them running through their mind because you've been exposed and you can't unsee it, and then women feel like that's truly what he wants, right? That's his picture of beauty, and we can't like seem to get that out of our head, right? And so you just go, where do we go from here? Because there's so many things that are stacked against us, like society is so sinful, and this we're just infiltrated, and we have so much, or we have years of tension surrounding this because of all of these things, and I would just say that God is bigger than that, and this is His desire for your marriage, and when you are truly, like, when you are truly releasing these things, and you are going to the feet of Jesus with your spouse and asking God, "Can you give me what your desire is for me? That the Bible says is what you want for my marriage? I'm not saying this is going to be this like overnight miracle, but he is in the business of healing hearts and souls and marriages, and that's what he wants for you. That's what he wants for our marriages. Ultimately, is to be a place of safety and where you can be vulnerable with your spouse, and a big part of that is having that personal friendship connection outside of the bedroom that you can take into the bedroom with you, right? That depth of a relationship.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're pretty much out of time.

All right.

Just want to encourage, like, the last thing that I want to say is the idea of like praying, praying, praying. Praying for your spouse changes the way you think about them. Just like we're supposed to like pray for our enemies, right? Pray for your spouse. It changes the way you think about them. Praying with your spouse, like it brings that mingling back together, and then praying for your spouse to be the object of your attraction, to be the object of your desire. As we get older, like the reality is, like we get older, right? So, like a continual prayer for God to make her my object of desire, me her object of desire, and He will work in that. Just want to leave you with that, and then there's some questions on that sheet, like for you guys to talk about. But I wanted to open it up. We probably don't have time, but that's okay. Nobody's come and told us to stop yet. So,

Lord, thank you for this time. Thank you for this gift of marriage and the gift of intimacy within marriage. And Lord, we all need your guidance in this area. I just pray against the enemy in our relationships, I pray that you would begin to help all of us to purify our minds and to connect with our spouses, to pray together with our spouses, and ultimately that you would heal hurts and that you would connect our hearts to each other in a way that allows us to vulnerably connect with each other. Go before us, and that you would speak through the next two sessions in Jesus' name. Amen.