Session Breakout (Landminds)

All right, let's pray. Father, thank you so much for the opportunity to come as married couples, as Christian couples, and to build upon the marriages in this church. Lord, I pray for each couple here, Lord, as we explore this topic, Lord, that you would use this time beneficially to show us things that we need to do, Lord, or maybe to remind us. Many times we just need to be reminded of some things, Lord. So I pray you would do that, and so thank you for each couple that's here, Lord. I pray your blessing upon them, upon their marriage, in Jesus' name, Amen. Okay, I already. You want your water? That's what drove you in there in the first place. Okay, so Debbie and I have been married almost 49 years, almost as long as Paul and Rosie. We were married on January 9, 1978, and in that time, we have been through a lot of tough situations. And what we're going to do is share some of those experiences with you, and hopefully, you can learn from maybe get something valuable out of the successes that we've had, and also the mistakes that we've made. Okay, so one thing I want to stress is that when we think about a landmine, okay, a landmine is not something that we're ready for, and it's not something we necessarily probably caused ourselves. Okay, it's just as you go through life, there's going to be these unexpected things that hit, okay, and and I like that Brandon used the landmine as the example because everything is great and then you step on the landmine and then everything explodes right, so that's what we're going to talk about. How as a married couple you can not just endure them, but maybe thrive through them. Okay. Now, I just want to touch a couple of things that Brandon said earlier when it comes to the purpose of marriage. Genesis 218, and the Lord God said, "It is not good that man should be alone. I will make him a helper comparable to him, and you know we always focus on that word helper, but we need to focus as much on that word comparable. Okay, because he didn't just provide Eve as someone to help him, but someone who was like him, the same as him. She's comparable to me, okay, and she's been provided by God for specific reason, right? To be my companion, to be to have fellowship with, and I imagine what Adam, when he first saw Eve, you know, I could just imagine that reaction. I mean, and and and so, and there's also this place that God has given her to me for comfort and for help, okay, someone to experience life with, if you will, okay. Then in Genesis chapter two again, after Adam awakens from his heavenly anesthesia and he sees her there, he says, she is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She's taken out of man, okay. And that he would leave his father and his mother and be joined together, and the two would become what? One flesh, okay. The two would become one flesh, and you know, for for the wives, they they can understand that it's like the two are becoming one oneness. You know, for men, you know sometimes it's a little different. So I'm going to give it to you in a little bit of a different application. Have you ever ran a three-legged race? Okay, guys are fish. Yeah, you know you tie these two legs together, and now I want you to get over there to the finish line. Right, that's kind of what it's like. Every you know you're dependent upon each other, and everything you come into, you're doing it together. And as you become one flesh, you become one. And anything that she feels, I feel. Anything that I feels, she should feel, should feel. Okay, so that two becoming one flesh thing. Now, we met in junior high, okay, and we start going out in the summer between the ninth and the 10th grade, okay, and we finally got married.

I mean, I was I was attracted to her across. I saw this girl. There was this attraction, you know, and then because that's how God works, okay, and then and then we got we got married. I was 18. She was 19. She was the older woman, and but I don't think we had a clue as to what the purpose of marriage was. Why did you decide to marry me, Debbie? What was what was your...

Put me on the spot, huh?

Yeah. Why? What? Why did you want to get married?

Well, I loved him as much as a 19-year-old loves. Right? I mean, we were all 19 once, and you know, a little background. I'm the oldest of five siblings. I had a lot of responsibilities with my brothers and sisters, helping my mom and all that stuff, and also had a lot of violence and anger in my home. My dad was a bad alcoholic, just very insecure situation all the time. Never knew what was going to be what, and his home, when I would I practically lived over there when we started dating, was like Ozzie and Harriet, you know, mom just cooking dinner, and my mom did do the best she could, but it was rough. And you know, his dad-it was just a perfect little family in my eyes, but nobody's perfect, right? And so I wanted to get out of my house. To be honest, that's you know I get out of my own house and have my own life and have my own little white picket fence and all these things that I didn't have in the one I was living in, and you know, Dan. Neither one of us needed to get married. That's for sure. He was still wild and crazy, and I thought I was going to change all that. And that's I thought I'll change him, and I'll have my perfect little life, and everything's going to be awesome.

Yeah, you know I think we both got married for selfish reasons. You know, I mean, in fact, my friends were all like, "Well, why don't you guys just move in together? You know, and it was like, "Hey, that sounds great, except her dad would kill me. We would our marriage wouldn't last very long. You know, but you know, obviously there was this physical attraction. We loved each other as much as you can know when you're 18 years old. Okay, but I think we both went into it with the attitude of what we could get out of it. Okay, and so as we encountered these challenges, you know, our response was nothing that God would approve of, or even anything according to God's plan. I mean, I grew up in the church. We knew God was important. We knew He's important enough that well, we'll send our kids to Christian school, but God was in no way directing our life, or were we following Him in any way? You know, and in the first 20 years of our marriage, that's the way it went. And I think there was a lot of conflict. Was there not, Debbie?

Yes. a lot of conflict, a lot of meism, you know.

She can be violent, not me.

Honestly, I am ashamed to say yes. I threw hit, but that's what I grew up with. To me, that was normal, you know. Even though I knew it wasn't normal.

As we were looking back on this, I did say to her, "Honey, in all the years, I have never laid a hand on you, have I? And she said, "No, but I laid everything else on you.

I mean, as much as I can hit a rock, you know. But

so, so now you just-I mean, we can't go into any more detail. But now you have a picture of the first 20 years of our marriage. Okay, God was not in it. We knew God was important, you know. But and then in 1998, something happened. We stepped on a landmine, and you want to share about that, Deb? Yes.

As I told you, my dad was a bad alcoholic, and probably in '98. How long we'd been married? 20 years. Yeah, wow, 20 years, and alcoholic through all that time. But for a few years there, he did get sober, and we used to go on walks together. I did a lot of walking when I was younger, and we would go on walks. Whenever he wasn't drinking, he was all about exercising, you know, and doing all that. And he told me, he goes, "Baby, if I ever go back to drinking, it'll kill me. I won't live through it. And I said, "Well, then don't drink, you know. But he, it was a, it was a bad. He battled all his life, and he did go back to drinking. And on New Year's Eve in 1998, him and my brother went to the liquor store, and there was cops there. And my brother said, "Dad, you're drunk. Go back to the house. I'll get more booze, and I'll bring it to the house. And when he was going back, he crossed the street, he was struck by a car, and we were going camping the next day. And I get this call from my brother saying dad had been hit by a car, and I said, after all the things we've been through, I said, "Well, how bad is it? You know, my dad's jumped out of cars. He he wrecked a car every year, you know. So I'm like, well, how bad is it? He goes, no, it's bad. And I'm like, dang it! And I was more upset about not going camping because I really didn't realize how bad it was. And he did pass a few hours later, and it was devastating to our family, and it changed our whole life.

Yeah, you know it was one of those things where they said, "Okay, we want the family to come over to this room. We need to talk to you. Well, you know what it is. You know he was killed, and the next thing was like, "Well, who's going to do the memorial service? You know, and without getting into that whole big long story, the person that wound up doing that service was Pastor John Atkinson, and I had seen him from afar. I did not know him, you know, but he came over to my house and spoke with our family, and something just the Lord just drew me out into the front yard to talk to him for about two hours. I don't even remember what was said, but the next Sunday, we were here at this church, you know, and it's an example how God can take something tragic, and He can use it for good in your life, you know. And we came into the church, and I remember the little lady Janet out there welcoming us, and oh, we felt so welcome, and the church was so small back then that you couldn't hide anywhere, you know, and but we just continued to come twice a week, and we became connected to this church family right here, and we began to sit under the teaching of Pastor John, and as that process played out, our marriage began to change, our life began to change. The friends that we used to hang out with, you know, over a long period of time, there, you know, it completely changed. And as God began to heal our marriage, then he began to use us, and I think that's critical. And you need to understand that that God doesn't want to just heal your marriage; He wants you to be effective for His kingdom. And I think the biggest change happened was when we went into ministry together. I mean, I was teaching the junior high, Debbie was teaching the nursery, and Pastor John came to me and said, "I want you to pray about leading the children's ministry. And I said, "Okay. And I came back and I said, "I prayed. I don't think so. And he said, "Will you go back and pray again because God thinks so? And so that was like the beginning of just a great 16 years of ministry that we led together. I was the leader, but it just taught me, you know, to be a partner with my wife in something where even though I was the the head of it, that that she was really the the backbone of it, if you will. I mean, you know, she came, you know, and so I got this great respect for her, and you know, and it taught me how to how to love her more, love her like Christ loved the church, how to lead something in a biblical way, how to be partners with her, and just it just changed everything within our marriage, you know, and I would say to couples here, if you can do ministry together, it's awesome. You know, it's awesome, and and my wife was changed as much as I was changed, you know, and I began to understand what my role was, the purpose for for marriage, you know, that I was to be her covering, okay, that I was to be her protection, that I was to be the spiritual leader, and I was to be her provider, you know, and in a selfless way, not in a selfish way, you know, I was to be the one that helped take the pressure off of her, you know, but also to consider what her interests were and be reminded of her qualities. You know, First Peter three seven tells us to husbands to give honor to your wife. Okay, to honor her. You know, it speaks of her as being. A weaker vessel, but not weak, just weaker.

God's given me this position that I cannot take lightly. I don't take anybody who's in authority. Okay, they have they can exercise that authority in different ways. God wants you to exercise that authority with your wife by giving honor to her, not by lording over her. Okay, so the whole structure of our marriage changed. And what would you say, Debbie, is your role? Because I forgot to ask you that the first time.

I'm like, you didn't ask me this Or this, no. I'll tell you, if you want to learn how to submit, be in ministry with your husband, because there was a lot of submission there. Because, like he said, I was-it was my job, and I took it seriously, and I was always coming up with these great ideas. I go, "Oh, we're going to do this, this, and this he goes nope, I don't think so, and that was hard, you know. Because, and but looking back on things, he was right, you know, and so learning how to submit was a big issue on being ministry together. It is great to be in ministry with your spouse, but it's not always easy, and if you let it be, it can be hard, or you can let it be beautiful, and just don't always feel like you got to be the one that's right. That's the biggest thing. But anyways, as my roles changed as a godly wife, I mean, I didn't know nothing when I came back to Jesus. I was saved when my daughter was two, but he wasn't on board with it. So eventually, I ended up going back into the old ways. But when he said he wanted to go to this church, and and I this first time he said he wanted to, I was like, let's do this, you know, and and so, but it was scary when they ordained him. It was very scary for me because I was thinking, now what is expected of me? I have to be this perfect, you know, always smiling, you know, know the answers to everything kind of wife, and I knew I wasn't that, and I don't have to be that. I don't. I just need to trust in the Lord, and keep my eyes on the Lord. And in Zechariah's four six, it tells me not by my might, but by His Spirit. And that's once I started learning that and learning how to do that, my job was not hard. It was a blessing to be a pastor's wife, to be in ministry with my husband, and just to be. We do married couples ministry together too, and meet a lot of people. We got all you guys are our friends, you know. So it's just, it's been awesome.

So, you know, if you can see a picture of this marriage that was going nowhere fast, and then coming to the church and seeing how God had changed it, and how we had this church family now, and you know, God was preparing us because we were getting ready to step into a literal mine field, okay, and we didn't know it because you don't see those minds, and so you know, one of them, the beginning of it all, we could see coming. Debbie's brother had cancer, and you know he passed away. And you know, thankfully, he got saved at a men's retreat here at Calvary Chapel North Long Beach. Which, by the grace of God, you know, thank you for that, Lord. And and but but he died of cancer, you know. And and that was just the a wave of minds that we would step on, Debbie's mom, she had to have several different surgeries. Her hip replaced. She had breast cancer. She had a stent placed in her heart. Now that's this is all within like a year.

One year.

Okay, at the same time, and then on Christmas Day, as we were over my family's gathering, I got a phone call on my cell, and it was her brother's 16-year-old daughter who had just found her dad hanging. He committed suicide on Christmas Day. Okay, and I'm like, I mean, how do you react? How do you respond to that? You know, and and it's like, I can't believe. I mean, I remember walking around the block trying to talk to her, and and you know she's hysterical. Now, in the midst of all of that, our son had been living on the street and was addicted to heroin. Okay, so everything's happening, and then you know your your own. And and I remember going up to my wife, you know, and I said, "What else can happen? Well, that's when I went roller skating with the children's ministry, and I broke my ankle. Okay, so you know that was self-inflicted. But you know, all of these things were happening all all at once, and it was like, how do we respond? How do we get through this? I remember we we were like a couple of balloons that you blew up real big and just let the air out, you know. And then it was hard. First, it was really hard, but the biggest thing that helped us was number one having a church family here, okay, and and you know, in the beginning, I remember saying to her, you know, we have to go do children's ministry. We had to do it Sunday. We did it on Wednesday, and as we came and we ministered to those kids, they ministered to us. It was amazing, you know. That was how we got our biggest relief was serving other people in the midst of all that stuff happening, you know. And we had obviously we had key people praying for us. We didn't put it on the prayer chain. All of those things, you know. It's like if you show up at church and all that's going on. Well, how are you going to minister to other people when all they want to do is minister to you? You know. So basically, you know, Pastor John knew about it. Maybe a few other key people would be praying for us. But we just came through those doors, like you know, and and as we ministered to those kids, they would just raise our spirits. We would come through those doors, and when we left, we would be like refreshed, you know. And we began to thank the Lord for good things instead of focusing on the bad things. And as we did that, then we drew we drew closer to each other. God, you. all of that to draw us together. Okay, and and I don't know. You want to share something about that time, honey? About that? I mean, that it was just literally within about 18 months, all of that stuff was going.

Yes, it was losing my father and brothers was hard, but my son on the street addicted to heroin was probably the hardest thing I had really to deal with, and I just remember just feeling so broken, so I'm a terrible mom, and I should have done this and I should have done that. Even blamed him for things, you know. And it wasn't like we were always just like, "Oh, thank you, Jesus, because it wasn't, you know. We had arguments, we had accusations, we had really bad moments, and all that too. But coming here and being with those kids, and some of you guys worked in the ministry with us, and it was just unbelievably soothing to come and and just have a kid hug you, and you know, knowing that I could maybe possibly make a difference in somebody else's life or some kid's life, kind of didn't make up for my son, but it just kind of helped, you know. And my husband was awesome. He spent so much time trying to make sure that I was okay that it was really I really failed him and not making sure he was okay, because you know he has this tough macho type image, but he was just as broken as I was, you know. Especially when it came to our son.

Yeah, you know, I look back on how our marriage was in the beginning, or even in that first 20 years, and how would we have responded? You know, well, I can tell you, I would have responded. I would have responded with probably a 12-pack, maybe a case, you know, and just tried to somehow numb it, you know, and and then of course she would have been of no consequence. There wouldn't have been anything going, you know. And so the difference in our lives after we came to Jesus and after we allowed Him to use us, I can't even tell you how much different it is. And and you know that was a time of heavy trials, okay? But it proved to be beneficial. You know when we look back on it now, you know because it brought us closer to each other, and it brought us closer to the Lord. You know, the verse, the verses that I like is is, and I love this passage, Philippians four six and seven. You know, and be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication. With thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. So don't be anxious for anything. Pray for everything, and be thankful. And when you do, it says the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds. As you allow God to work in your life, you understand His plan for you. You have a peace that you cannot receive anywhere else. You know, before I knew the Lord, I had no peace in my life. You know, I was filled with fear. Standing up here talking to you guys like this, if you had told me that, you'd be like, if they, if I'd known that when I walked through those doors, they'd be like, "Uh-uh, I'm scared to death of people. But God changed us. He changed who we were as a couple. You know, Proverbs three five and six: Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths. You know, trust. Trust God. Trust God through all of it. You know, look, that was a tough period in our lives, but in 48 years, there's been a lot of other tough ones. You know, that was just an extreme example of this small window where we were hit with all that stuff. You know, in the last three years, I've lost both of my parents, you know, and and that's tough to go through, you know, taking care of my mom, who, you know, but you know, rather than being stressed out about it, God showed me that it was a privilege to be able to do that for my mom, you know, and that you know, don't don't be anxious about it. Be thankful that you had a mom for that long. You know, and and you know God is faithful as we go through these things. You know, He's taken us from a couple that had been together for 20 years, okay, and had no purpose and no direction to one that is focused on Him and and focused on what He has for us and what He's called us to do. Not just that He might be a comfort for us, but that we might serve Him. You know, at at the end of Matthew chapter seven, and I know Charlie shared this with the guys, but Jesus is teaching the Sermon on the Mount, and he talks about the two builders and how one builder built his house on the rock, and the other one built it on the sand, and then the rains came, and the storms came, and the one that was built on the rock withstood all of it, and the one built on the sand was wiped out. You know, and it's it's really a picture of of marriage. I mean, it's a picture of us individually, but it's also a picture of us together. Because if our marriage is built on the rock, no matter what we go through together, we're going to be able to withstand it. That God will give us the ability to withstand it, you know. Even in the midst of some of the worst pain, okay, God will help you to withstand it.

And you know, as I shared with the guys, you know, there's a as you build a foundation, you have different components. You have the sand, the rock, the cement, the steel, and added to all that to make it all come together is water. Without the water, it's none of it's going to work. And the water, in a sense, in the foundation of a marriage is trust. Trust is something that needs to be foundational to your marriage. That she trusts me and I trust her, and trust doesn't happen overnight, you know. And I don't think in those first 20 years we really trusted each other. I was never, you know, thankfully, praise God, I have never been unfaithful to my wife in that sense, but Lord knows I would tell her things that weren't true. Lord knows I would say one thing and do another. Lord knows she couldn't really trust me.

I know, like what? No, I'm just kidding.

She couldn't trust me in that sense, you know. And so, as we began to serve the Lord, as we came to this church, and as our marriage grew, we built that trust in there. And and the thing about trust is that you know you build it over time, but you can lose it in a moment. You know, so I you know whenever I think about any any any action in my life that has to do with my wife, if it's gonna in some way have her lose any trust in me, man, I'm not doing that because I need her and she needs me, and we need to trust each other. You know, and I, I mean, I fully trust her with everything. You know, so. Anyway, I wrote up a recipe, not just for surviving, but for thriving in times of trouble. Okay, and point number one is that your marriage is structured in a biblical way, the way God designed it, with Christ at the center. Number one, it has to be that way, if you're gonna if you're gonna thrive. It's got to be structured that way, and and we talked all about how that worked in our life, how it wasn't structured that way. As we came to this church, we learned how God wanted us to be as a couple, and we began. He began to change us. Okay. Point number two is that you have a strong support team. Okay. And I'm talking a church family, your family as well, but your church family especially, because that was so important for us as we went through things that we had people to pray for us, that we had people that we could confide in, we had people, you know, helping us and encouraging us. And then, point number three is pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, pray. Bring everything to the Lord. Okay, pray with your wife. Pray with your husband. You know Jesus. How much did he pray? And he's God. You know when we look at example of people in the Bible that were really strong figures in in the Bible, they were all men or women of prayer. Okay, is it going to change God's mind on something? Am I going to pray until, oh, now he? I prayed enough. He's going to do what I ask him to do. No, what it's going to do, it's going to give me a confidence in God that He hears me, He loves me, He's concerned with me. I just, you know, I need to be in contact with Him. That He would strengthen me, if nothing else. And then, point number four: Don't place your focus upon the trial. Place your focus upon the Lord. And in doing that, how is He going to use this for good in my life? You know, because you know we we we read the verse: All things are working together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. You know, but if we don't have the right attitude, they're not going to work together for good. If all we can do is focus on that thing that's happening instead of on the Lord, then it's not going to work for good. And then number five, I would say, serve others, serve other people in the midst of what you're doing. I think about Jesus, who's getting ready to go to the cross the next day, and he's washing the feet of his disciples the night before. You know, and it's not like he didn't know what was going to happen. You know, and then the last point is that you would be thankful for everything that that happens in your life. Be thankful. Thank God for all of those things, and you know sometimes you just say, "Well, how can I be thankful? Believe me, you have so much to be thankful for, you know, and and so he, in the midst of all of the storm, thank God that He's with you. Thank God that He has given you an eternal life with Him. You know, God is God is always focused on eternal. We are mostly focused on the here and now, are we not? That's just because that's the way we're wired, you know.

But God has an eternal perspective on everything, and if you have to go through something so that it will add to God's kingdom, so be it. You know, God's going to use that. He's gonna He's going to use it for His glory, and you need to recognize that, so it's not like God. Why are you letting this happen to me? It's like God, how are you going to use this? You know, as as a couple, people people are watching you, and if you go to church, if you're a Christian, they're seeing how you respond to things, you know, and and it can be a great testimony to people that don't know the Lord that you would be able to withstand some of those things in a way that they can't really figure out. That that you your testimony would not be the things that you say as much as the things that you do, and the way and the way you respond, you know. And and for my wife and I, you know, I remember when we came to this church. I would I can't tell you how many friends we had. We had a lot of friends, and none of them went to church. And the friends that we went to church that we knew that went to church was about this big, you know. And and so you had this, and you had this, you know. And over the years, it just this went down to here, and this went out to here. It just it's just amazing as I think about it, as I look back on it, you know. And yeah, I know he's giving me the thing. Did I leave something out you wanted to share, honey?

I want to share something. I'm

sorry. I like to talk.

He does. God bless him. Ladies, all they can say is the praying part that he was talking about. I know sometimes it can be difficult to pray as married couples. It can be kind of uncomfortable. I don't know what it is, person you know the best in the whole wide world. It could be a kind of uncomfortable thing to pray with, but do it. Make yourselves do it. The more you do it, the easier it'll get. It was uncomfortable for us at first, and I always expected him to initiate it. Well, you know what? There's no rule that says that. If your husband's uncomfortable, say, "Well, let me pray, and we'll, and then eventually you'll see what happens. But praying is very important as a couple, and that firm foundation. Build that together. It's huge, huge, huge, huge. And then you know sometimes when you're praying you don't have to have words, God hears your heart. So praying is very very important, and get that life first and go back to it. Mine's Isaiah 4110. If you don't have one, it's a good one. Don't be afraid; He's with you. Don't be discouraged, for He's your God, and He will strengthen you and help you, and He will hold you with His righteous right hand. So find that verse. Find a prayer partner, ladies, another woman to help you get through these things. Sometimes men just don't understand what we're going through, no more than we don't understand what they're going through, because a mom's heart is is deep, and it's very, very delicate when it comes to our babies. Right, so find a woman to pray with, and get into this church family. We this church has the best family that I have ever seen. Okay, we are awesome, and if you don't feel like you're included, well, let us know because we don't mean to make you feel that way, okay? Because it's very important. Thank you.

By the way, I'm very hard of hearing, so my wife always comes up to me. She says that person was just talking to you. You didn't say anything back to him. They probably think you're ignoring them. It's like I'm just deaf. If you say something to me, and I don't respond. It's because I can't hear.

Sometimes I'm behind. I'm going, but I'm not always there. So,

anyway, you know, I hope you know some of the things that we've touched on here today is are helpful to you. That you know you can understand that God has a plan for your marriage, and it's not just for you. Okay, you know it's it's to represent Him, Christ in the church, and other people that they would see, you know, exactly how He's working in your lives. And I pray that the landmines are minimal for you guys. I really do, but I will tell you this: it's a minefield out there. Let's pray, Father. Thank you so much for these couples that are in here today. All that are at the conference, everyone in our church, couples around the world. Lord, I just pray for your church, Lord, that you know we would be equipped and we would be ready, Lord, as we go into really battle, Lord, and that the enemy he does have those landmines out there, you know, planted for us to to step on, Lord, and that as married couples we would be prepared to go through this life together in such a way that would be pleasing to you, Lord, that would glorify you, and that would you know really be beneficial to us, that we might have the joy of the Lord as our strength, and that we might endure such things, Lord, in a way where we come out the other side stronger and and and just ready for the next challenge, Lord, ready to serve you in whatever capacity you call us to. I pray your blessing upon these couples in here in this room today, Lord. Bless their marriages. Help them, Lord, to be moving forward in You, Lord, and and and to be prepared in the minefield of this world. In Jesus' name, Amen. God bless you guys.